10 man ulduar

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10 man ulduar

Post  Wally on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:35 pm

As several people know i'm for the idea of taking the guilds best and trying to clear ten man before rushing headlong into 25 man. This is just a post to spell out my reasoning.

1)Get some people experienced. 25 newbies going into ulduar will be a complete wipe fest. 15 newbies going into ulduar with an experienced leader and 9 people who know the strats to help explain will be alot less troublesome.
2)Taking our best means we can guarantee its the strats then need work if we struggle. Taking 25 people of variable gear will always lead to the question of whether its the gear or the strats that's the problem.
3)There are always going to be special jobs in certain fights (e.g the Gluth kiters).Training the few that'll do this in ten man will be alot less painful than training them on the 25 man...and better for repair bills.
4)Finally by assuring the quality of the people i believe we'll be getting more tries on a boss before we quit. The top dps in the guild are the top because they pay silly amounts for small gains (e.g 100g for 9 SP), These are the ones who really want to see the boss on the floor. Your also going to guarantee some silly dps levels-as someone who's been topping the meters without flasks or food buffs before (because i'm cheap Razz ) i've suddenly found my top dps spot challenged by rogue's hunters ret pallys and feral druids from all directions-the result? Its become fierce competition and every one of us is now turning up with every drop of extra dps to try and gain an edge.

On the other hand i accept that if we do this it may well create friction in the guild between those chosen and not.

I think a 10 man try and clear it fast as possible run makes sense, but this is just my view-i just wanted to put my points forward for consideration.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Erseian on Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:20 pm

I agree with wally! Smile

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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Gilla on Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:18 pm

Well said wally i fully agree...I think once we get a few peeps used to 10 man then they will be able to carry the rest through in 25 man and carry the wait of inexperience.... It will progress much faster in the long run. Maybe clear or nearly clear 10 man in a week...or just get 2 or 3 bosses in 25...big difference IMO.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Garulff on Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:57 pm

agree m8 =) just tell me the day =)

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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Poshboots on Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:19 pm

Yeh - there's a good reason 10 man is there before 25 man - so let's take the hint.

Nothing wrong with getting two teams together either in my view - we did it with Naxx 10 successfully quite a few times b4 tackling 25 player version.

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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Padz on Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:40 pm

I wouldn't want to choose our 10 best people as some people would be disappointed, remember its not all about dps, its also about coorporation, and that will be way more important in ulduar than before.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Wally on Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:57 am

True, but the top ten tend to be the ones who do the research as well-i get the numbers i do because i'm constantly checking for new build idea's, learning where the best loot comes from and learning how to pull my rotation off flawlessly.

Hand in hand with this i research every boss before i come.

The fact is that the top dps are our top dps for a reason-because they put the effort in, and because they're rly rly good players. They're just not the ones who make mistakes-and at the end of the day for downing bosses co-operation means doing your job-and as a dps that means getting the highest numbers possible, by every means nessercary (flasks, food, gems, enchants, specs) and this is what you can expect from the best.

Edit:I'm not implying everyone should go to such lengths, i'm just saying your likely to get better results from people who do.

There's also an inherent link between skill and dps on th basis of 0HP = 0DPS. If you can't dance Heigan, cross charges on Thadd or stand in Sapphs Blizzard and end up face down...then you'll lose dps because of it.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Padz on Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:22 am

While I agree to what you're saying at some level, you can't always just look at the dps meter, you need to see who the people are dealing damage too and how much. I myself have tried 10 man sarth with 3 drakes up, wiping even tho our numbers were great we weren't getting the 3 drakes down. Why is that? Simply because the dps were too slow to change target. The top-dps'ers were too focused on doing the maximum amount of damage untill the drake lands, meaning they loose a decent amount of dps on the drake when it lands, thus skewing up the charts. Anyone tried the new VoA-boss know how fast you need to change and nuke.
Another matter is stop spellcasting. Where you would normally ask our rogues to do it on KelThuzad, Rythorn and I ended up being the ones doing the most interrupts, and we also applied sunders since we had no warrior tanks on KT himself. Which doesn't do much too our own damage but it helps the raid a lot.

It's not naxx difficulty anymore and its not only about the numbers you put up. Naxx10 and 25 man being easier than karazhan ever was.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Wally on Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:00 pm

I take your point.

We'd have to be careful, but i still think overall dps has a link to skill as well-take for instance our hunters. Hudson is our top hunter dps (others are close, but he still carry's it)-yet i never feel safer than when he's the one busting my ass out of maex's web cocoons.

I agree that encouraging mindless fight for dps is bad, but when you assign a job you also need people capable of doing the job. The reason i feel so safe when hudson's hitting the cocoons is because i know his dps is great and there's approximately 0.3 nano seconds between him spotting a cocoon and the trapped person walking free.

The other reason i'd support top dps...is that there's some tough in enrage timers in ulduar. Take XT 002 deconstructor. Similar to patchwerk-simple fight, 6 minute enrage timer. Thing is-he's got double patch's hp. While its not so clear cut (there are brief moments of double damage) the fact remains beating that'll take serious dps.

I do however agree with your point. There are numerous debuffs that some classes apply that will give a bigger overall dps boost to the raid. The hard bits getting the balance between pure dps and dps boosting.
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Re: 10 man ulduar

Post  Summonus on Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:02 pm

Bacou will try to set up a 10 man team as he finds it easier to handle 10 man in a raid compared to 25 man, so 10 man ulduar will easen up the learning of tactics.
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